Cruel or Not?

scottdog

New member
Ok boys ive got a bit of a dilema in my mind over getting a dog or not. I rent my house and my landlord has agreed that i can have a dog as long as it is housed outside. I live next door to the fella so there is no way i can pull the wool over his eyes with regard to where the dog is kept. I have a decent sized garden and hardstanding to put up a kennel and run but no way of putting any electricity in it for any heating. Remembering this is Scotland would it be cruel to expect it to be out at night 365 days of the year. The dog will likely get the run of the garden and be allowed in the house (on the sly ) through the day and walks/training time will not be an issue. Any dog ive had was in the house. I have decided on a lab but the housing issue is giving me doubts. Any thoughts?
 

Ribblerod

New member
If it's cruel for them to live outside in an unheated Kennel then it's sure as heck cruel to allow them to jump in cold water and wait by your side in the rain etc. when shhoing in winter. No it isn't cruel infact i think it's a good idea generally. Otto is living in the large single glazed porch presently unheated but it is far from ideal and i am building him an outside kennel and run in an exposed area 857ft above sealevel. Consider taking a dog from the fireside to a duck pond in winter, i feel that is worse.
 
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lochbois

Guest
Proper Kennel

Proper Kennel

My father kept a Borzoi and a few raceing greyhounds in our out house .
Mother would not allow the dogs in the house.
The dogs had straw but never any electric heating and lived there all winter.
The Borzoi was poisoned by some person jelouse of the beautiful dog ,and since then we never kept another dog.
40 years later im thinking of getting a dog but they are very expensive and they deserve your attention and plenty of exercice ,if not that is cruelty to me.
I have a mate who has a litter of pups if he offered me one i might be tempted.
No way i can afford the £300 plus price they are selling for.
He has eight dogs now that live in his house and i dont agree with that but if i want a couple of dogs to take for a walk i borrow them.:)
 

Andy R

New member
Scottdog,

I keep my dog in the kitchen in winter, in summer the plan is for outdoors (though at 12 months he was too young last summer). My wife has rather reversed the 'rules' as he's grown on her. You may find the same happens with your landlord.

I'm not sure how much you know about dogs, I'm only on my first, but come from a family with lots of dogs (farmers and keepers), but please excuse me if this list is stating the obvious.

There's nothing wrong with having a dog outdoors IMO with the following provisos:

1) Get a decent kennel; the kennel should be draft proof and raised off the ground- either on it's own legs, or raised up by other means. You can get really good ones that are insulated. I've not bothered with these as my dog's in the kitchen in winter, so the one we have is a simple wooden kennel with a separate sleeping compartment with access at right angles to the main door, this helps cut down drafts.

2) Dog proof the garden or get a proper run attached to the kennel, with some cover from the rain.

3) When you've taken the dog out and he/she's tired and wet, do not put them away tired and wet- they should be warm and dry before put back outside. In order of priority when coming back from shooting: dog, gun, you.

4) If you're getting a pup, you may have to get him used to outdoors bit by bit. My spaniel still sleeps indoors, but in the daytime prefers to be outside, coming in again in the evening.

In summary no one would want to sleep outside wet and cold, though dogs will be comfortable in much lower temperatures that we would need. The same as people; if they are warm and dry, then they'll last much longer before they get arthritis/ joint issues- a longer working life.

Overall if you can commit enough time to training and exercise there's less of an issue than you think.

Andy R.
 
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lochbois

Guest
Dogs Kennel

Dogs Kennel

When my mate was after a outside dogs kennel the first we saw was no better than a matchbox the wood was that thin.
We went to a good shed and garage builder in Cotherstone in Teesdale.
We ended up with one of them kids playhouses which were on offer at the time.
He still has three dogs in the warmer weather in it.
Its a lovely well built little house that has windows and is raised has a patio.
I have recommended them to lots of people since because they dont look out of place in a garden.:)PB
 

outside

New member
NOt cruel at all. Rather than the classical dog kennel, like a little cuckoo clock, I prefer a small shed with an enclosed box in the corner, floor raised up and an entrance facing away from the main entrance. Its good to keep them restricted to that and a concrete run a lot of the time, as they tend to chew up grass in the winter! Make sure your run has adequate drainage. If possible seal it with patio sealer, then it is easier to clean. A roofed run is by far the best.

Don't worry about the cold on a labrador, look where labrador is!
 

Rockdoc

New member
Kennel

Kennel

NOt cruel at all. Rather than the classical dog kennel, like a little cuckoo clock, I prefer a small shed with an enclosed box in the corner, floor raised up and an entrance facing away from the main entrance. Its good to keep them restricted to that and a concrete run a lot of the time, as they tend to chew up grass in the winter! Make sure your run has adequate drainage. If possible seal it with patio sealer, then it is easier to clean. A roofed run is by far the best.

Don't worry about the cold on a labrador, look where labrador is!
This is spot on. We had an ordinary garden shed with raised beds and a good concrete run. No heating but some insulating boarding...kingspan or something will help. In the cold dogs curl up tight and keep warm and toasty, it'd only be cruel if it had been used to being a house dog.


AP:)
 

tote

Member
It certainly isn't cruel to have a dog outside in a kennel. I've had lurchers and greyhounds for over 25 years and all of them have been kenneled, infact i'm not a fan of having dogs in the house.

On to the kennel, as has already been said keep the bed off the ground which you could do by placing two pallets one on top of the other. If you are worried about it being cold for the dog you could insulate the walls, ceiling and floor of the kennel. I had mine insulated with polystirene sheets, it made a difference.
 

avalon angling

New member
Ye might also want to run an extension cord to the shelter and plug in a light bulb ... the heat from it should suffice to keep a bit of warmth fer the pup...that is a way we do it 'ere in Nfld. Plenty of hunters who keep beagles for the "wabbits" do as such!
 

jimac

New member
reading the posts i take it iv'e to stop these two mutts of mine sleeping on the bed in the bedroom then!!!!!:D:D

 

Bracken

New member
I have kept and trained gundogs for many years and pick up regularly on both commercial and syndicated shoots. My dogs live indoors with us, are part of the family and this does not affect their ability to work. Dogs are pack animals and as such need and respond to company which they will not get enough of, if relegated to a kennel in the garden. If a dog has to be kept outside then in my opinion it would be better to have two, so that they would be company for each other during the long periods when separated from "master".
 

Ribblerod

New member
mmm, see your point- but having two untrained at same time = lots of work. I keep mine on own but i am about most of the time. Formal shooting such as you descibe is far less hard on the dogs than the work i do and keeping inside is just not going to be an option for myself, not only from the aclimitisation point of but also he would need about six baths a week!
As a pup he was in the house for socialisation though, i was told it was essential with the breed
 

xl50

New member
Plenty of mates of mine have working dogs in the house. Infact my late father had 2 and it didnt make a difference. Just make sure that you have house rules for the family on how to treat the dog and you should be fine. Sorry on the lateness of the replie I just found the thread after yesterdays work party I was at.
 

sewinbasher

New member
Apart from some freak breeds with no hair dogs are not evolved to live indoors although quite obviously happy to do so as per my own lab. It is not however cruel to house a dog outside, even in Scotland, provided that it has a clean, warm and sheltered sleeping area and is exercised every day. The biggest cruelty to a dog is to overfeed and under-exercise. Virtually all working dogs, gundogs and sheepdogs, live in outside kennels and are none the worse for it.
 

DAZ

Active member
Spot on,SB.

My own dogs have never seen the indoors,they were born out doors and live outdoors,they know no different.I know a few people with working dogs that are kept in the house and to be fair,they are good dogs,one in particular is brilliant but.There is no doubt that they don't handle the elements quite like a kenneled dog.My own,even in the very sever weather we had this year choose to sleep on top of their dog box rather than in it.

DAZ
 

stealthfox

New member
I have had many gundogs kept both in the house and in kennels, from field trial dogs to just good shooting dogs. I worked from home a lot and my best dog was with me in the home and when i went out on business, we built up a fantastic rapport. As Daz says the coats of the outside dogs were thicker, but that didn't seem to make a difference as they were normally moving most of the time they were out and when they stopped they went in the car! Also I noticed that the indoor dog's pace increased notably when the air was cool and there was some dampening rain on their backs. As someone said an important fact is the dogs indoor regime and how its is treated by other members of the family. Retrieving is the most easily damaged, telling dogs off for having your wallet / best shoes etc in their mouths, can so easily cause problems. So is it cruel, no i don't think so! Is it beneficial to the dog, no i don't think so. Is it cleaner in the house when the dog is in the kennel, yes it is:)
 
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